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Alternate of an Alternate by Alt-Reality Alternate of an Alternate by Alt-Reality
A fan map of Harry Turtledove's TL-1911 series - pondering what could have happened had the CSA won WWI.
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:icongukpard:
Gukpard Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I think that the Confederates should have annexed at least Maryland, but they could problably claim Missouri too
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:icondeadislandfan:
deadislandfan Featured By Owner May 15, 2015
Why isn't Atlanta considered a major city of the Confederacy?
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:icondyluthus:
Dyluthus Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2014
A very clean and era appropriate piece indeed! Though I'm loathed to enjoy any timeline where the Confederacy is victorious I'm happy to see that Canada is no longer an occupied territory as opposed to Turtledove's post-Great War TL-1911 timeline :)
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:iconmornofvivec:
MornofVivec Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2014
Look at it this way: Had the Confederacy won, it would have meant no Jake Featherston. I recall reading on the Turtledove Wiki that Turtledove initially planned the South to win and become more liberal, especially by giving credit to the black soldiers for the victory. Conversely, someone like Gordon McSweeney would rise up in the North, and USA would become more authoritarian.
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:icondyluthus:
Dyluthus Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2014
Indeed MornofVivec the pieces in hindsight were indeed set for such an outcome. I've heard that theory before and having read the books I can easily believe that Mr. Turtledove had entertained the idea of a Southern Great War victory, yet I have a hard time imagining just how the Confederacy and Canada could have overcome the sheer industrial and population gap with the United States in that timeline. It would have been very interesting to know what Turtledove had in mind.
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:iconcheeseburgertom:
CheeseburgerTom Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014
Assuming Hawaii went back to the British?  Poor Mexico got such a tiny land gain that it almost seems insulting even if it includes San Diego.  Didn't remember Jefferson being a state in these books.
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:iconoyveyiloveit:
OyVeyILoveIt Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2014
Oh hell no, you damn Yoopers are staying with us! We won you from Ohio!
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Oct 31, 2013  Student Digital Artist
It always bugs me that the Chihuahua-Durango border is not what it was at the time when Chihuahua would have become a Confederate state.
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:iconcheeseburgertom:
CheeseburgerTom Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2014
It always bugged me that the CSA bought two Mexican States for the explicit purpose of building a transcontinental railroad that didn't go to the Pacific Ocean.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I think that the Bay of California is arguably a part of the Pacific Ocean, but I see your point.
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:iconsecretagent632:
SecretAgent632 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
This has got to be one of my favorite alternate timeline series. If the Confederacy won the Great War in America, does that mean France and England won in Europe?
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:iconjerry7119:
Jerry7119 Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2014
Of course not. Rumania was defeated in 1916 and Russia in 1917. So the Germans had the troops free for the western front. Italian hadn't made it either. They have lost at the Isonzo-River about 15 times hundreds of thousands soldiers. So they were going to loose too. So France and GB wouldn't had hold the western front line. And that is the reason, why the USA got in. Because if the Entende would have lost the war, all goods and money which had been send to the allies would had been lost for the the USA.
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:iconsaint-tepes:
Saint-Tepes Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Maine, where Stephen King is ruler.
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:iconxxstayxpositive:
XxStayXPositive Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
This was possibly the greatest comment I read today. You win. :D
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:iconsaint-tepes:
Saint-Tepes Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Thanks
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:iconpete8680:
pete8680 Featured By Owner Nov 21, 2012
North Virginia? So Cahokia will become a nation or part of the CSA? Wut about Gibson? a state with the CSA or USA? Intresting map!
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:iconalternatehistory:
AlternateHistory Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Based on the color, I'm figuring any plebescites are part of the USA.
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:iconsaint-walker:
Saint-Walker Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
It looks very interesting, the only thing I would have expected was for Michigan and part of New York state to have been annexed as well, it gives a better buffer to Toronto
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:iconraistlin82:
Raistlin82 Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2012
You mean to tell me this isn't a real map?
It feels legit.
Last time I went to Houston, that was the general feeling...
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:iconwilji1090:
wilji1090 Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh great, Gordon McSweeney becoming President just sends a shiver of fear down my spine.
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:iconxdraconiankingx:
xDraconianKingx Featured By Owner May 10, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Soooo does this mean the US is going to go Fascist? D:
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:icondxvsnwo1994:
DXvsNWO1994 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2012
Actually Turtledove had "supposedly" had originally planned on having the US (and Germany) loose World War 1 in the Timeline 191 Series with Gordon McSweeney becoming the "Adolf Hitler" of the US
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:iconsaint-walker:
Saint-Walker Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
I never really saw how that would work, Featherston was a very talented demagogue who was believable in seizing the CSA with his brand charismatic madness. McSweeny was nowhere that good a speaker and seemed to aggravate everyone he met so unless he got someone as talented as Featherston I don't see him getting into Powel House. Same with the Catholic holocaust, the Mormons would be more believable, or the USA's more limited black population
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:icondxvsnwo1994:
DXvsNWO1994 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
I agree, but again that was only his original plan (supposedly) so obviously he changed things around. I'm sure if he had decided to go with McSweeny as "The Dictator", he would have given more time to McSweeny, and the character would (obviously) be different because of that. But again that was just something I heard. I actually would be against that idea...The CSA Dictatorship is better
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2012
In all likelyhood, "North Virginia" would be annexed to Virginia, not formed into it's own state.
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:iconamongthesatanic:
AmongTheSatanic Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
I think it's the CSA's way of saying fuck you to West Virginia for betraying them back in the Civil War :P
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:icondandan26:
DanDan26 Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
p
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:icondandan26:
DanDan26 Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
WHY IS PHILADELPHIA IN THE MIDDLE OF PENNSYLVAINIA!?
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:icontombombardier:
TomBombardier Featured By Owner Jun 24, 2011
Wait, why break up Idaho?
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:icontombombardier:
TomBombardier Featured By Owner Jun 24, 2011
Beautiful and hilarious. Though the Emperor set up during the Civil War seemed to be pro-Union. Especially considering how it was Southerners who kept invading northern Mexico.
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:iconguyverman:
Guyverman Featured By Owner Jun 23, 2011
Slavery would've not been abolished until the 20th century.
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:icondafreak47:
DaFreak47 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Actually this map is from a book series, and the British and French forced the Confederates to free there slaves in the 1880s or so although there conditions were no better afterwards.
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:iconamongthesatanic:
AmongTheSatanic Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2011  Hobbyist Artist
Just noticed you spelled "Phoenix" wrong. Still love the map, and all Turtledove-based works :heart:
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:iconsakraida82:
Sakraida82 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2011
I gather this is if they JUST happened to make it to Philadelphia and take it.
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:iconreactorman:
ReactorMan Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
High five for independent Desert!
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:icontimtam4:
timtam4 Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Interesting idea and fabulous artwork! I can't help but wonder what would have happened if and when the Second Great War came to pass...

And to that end, what the result was in Europe?
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:iconadigitalsm1ley:
ADIGITALSM1LEY Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
damm.
i want this to be real so badly :(
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:iconsalnax:
Salnax Featured By Owner Jul 27, 2010
Really United States? You lost THREE wars in a row?

What are you, Timeline 191 France?
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2011
Umm, France was fairly badass in WW1.
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:iconamongthesatanic:
AmongTheSatanic Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
France lost three wars in a row ITTL.
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
"ITTL"?
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:iconamongthesatanic:
AmongTheSatanic Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
In Timeline-191, France lost the Franco-Prussian War, WW1, and then WW2. ITTL means "in this timeline", referring to the alternate historical world.
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
I'm sorry, I meant OUR timeline.
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:iconamongthesatanic:
AmongTheSatanic Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
France wasn't particular bad ass in the Great War.
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
The majority of soldiers on the Western front were French, they invented both the modern tank and the beginning of tank tactics. They defended their democratic nation against a larger empire, and took back what was stolen from them (Alsace-Lorraine). Not, bad, hm?
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(1 Reply)
:iconsalnax:
Salnax Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2011
In Timeline 191, they lost the Franco-Prussian War and both World Wars.
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:iconalexdartois:
AlexDartois Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2011
Yes, yes, I know that. I was talking about real life.
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:iconwalter-heisenberg:
Walter-Heisenberg Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2010
I love Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 storyline.
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:iconhaloofdawn:
HaloOfDawn Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2010
Always wanted to see a map like this, but i forget, when did the US attack Canada and make the Republic of Qubec?
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:iconconfederatehusky:
ConfederateHusky Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2009
Great map, aside from the fact Philidelphia is in the wrong place on the map. It seems as if it's located where Harrisburg should be.
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November 16, 2008
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